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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle you know there's explanation

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for everything that occurred in the

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rendelsham forest incident that doesn't

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involve aliens at all it was completely

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silent it comes right over our heads he

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saw a classic flying saucer really

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standing in the clearing he turned over

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to my father and held his hand and he

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looked in his eyes and he said we're not

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welcome to podcast ufo with martin

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willis and michael lauc please remember

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to visit the website podcastufo.com

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check out the latest blogs and forums

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and while you're there

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don't forget to like our very active

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facebook page hello and welcome to the

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show i'm martin willis your host michael

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luke will be joining us for the news in

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a second today's podcast is number 74

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with dr don lincoln who is a senior

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scientist at the fermi lab his primary

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research interests

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is search for subatomic particles

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smaller than quarks

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he has a new book out which we will

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discuss and it's titled alien universe

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extraterrestrial life in our minds and

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in the cosmos he doesn't quite believe

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that ufos are extraterrestrial visiting

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us he needs this darn stuff they call

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physical evidence before he's convinced

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before we get into the news i'll be live

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on

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a call-in radio show this sunday the

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17th

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7 to 8 p.m eastern standard time if

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you're not in boston

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pittsburgh detroit or seattle you can

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listen through radio.com

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womc w-o-m-c-f-m

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so that's it for me michael what's going

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on with the news

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um well first off some science news the

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hubble has spotted a six-tailed comment

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and or asteroid

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an article due to be published in the

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astrophysical journal letters highlights

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an object spotted by hubble named p2013

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p5 with an orbit like an asteroid but

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multiple tails like a comet one

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explanation for the strange objects

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suggested by john hopkins applied

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physics laboratory scientist harold

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weaver is that it is indeed an asteroid

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but the six tails are being created as

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it breaks apart this explanation

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according to southwest research

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institute planetary scientist william

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botkey is quote unquote cool but

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quote far from proven that's pretty wild

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you see i'm going to post the picture in

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our show notes

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it's a really it looks like someone said

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a sprinkler almost

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and

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all that but the celabinsk near earth

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asteroid that actually burst in russia

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scientists are discovering that was just

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a fragment of what could be a uh about a

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two kilometer asteroid there was a

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collision some time ago and this is a

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fragmented piece we don't really have to

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worry about the two kilometer asteroid

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but we do have to worry about other

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fragments that might have broken off in

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that and coming from the direction of

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the sun it's impossible to spot them so

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that's interesting it's probably about

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once every 25 years type of event will

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happen oh only once every 25 years

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great

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i think this all just highlights the

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real need for

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looking

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into new ways to spot

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the near-earth objects particularly ones

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like you mentioned that are coming

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uh the direction of the sun and can't be

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seen with telescopes right

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lee spiegel claims spike in ufo

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sightings linked to drones in a recent

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huffington post article lee spiegel

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opined that worldwide spike in ufo

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sightings may be linked to the rise in

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unmanned aerial vehicles or drones he

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points specifically to the recent

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canadian baseball game hoax and the

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russian news agency aerial camera

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platform as specific examples

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do you remember uh we had that news

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first remember that we talked about that

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we thought they would spike oh i don't

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know maybe three or four months ago

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we did talk about it a while ago and um

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unlike

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his article you know i

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i don't think we ever have implied that

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drones look like ufos oh he actually

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does i know that there are some of them

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that actually do

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you know some of them that are the

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circular ones with multiple fans and

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things like that well well that's a prob

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those aren't actually drones what are

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they called

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those

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when when people talk about drones are

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coming to the united states if the faa

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is going to approve drones what they're

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talking about are unmanned aerial

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vehicles

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that and by definition

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this is something that can be flown

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out of the line of sight of the operator

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okay so those quadricopter things that

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you can run with your iphone or buy or

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build and they literally can be a small

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i was looking at one the other day

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that i believe was two and a half inches

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across

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um and they start there and they can get

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up to be a couple

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a couple yards across i've actually seen

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people build them um if it's in line of

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sight it's not technically a drone it's

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not this this new unmanned aerial

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vehicle it those things are basically i

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mean

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they're basically remote control

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helicopters they're they're toys you

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know the unmanned the drones that

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everybody's talking about

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which are are not line of sight objects

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those you know and i've looked into it

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quite a bit because this is a field i've

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been kind of thinking about going into

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those

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really almost always

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look

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like

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some kind of

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relatively large in comparison to a

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typical model plane plane of some sort

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and a lot of them are you know

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six eight feet or much larger um even

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even uh one of the articles that we're

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linked to which mentions the um

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x47b which is a a naval drone i believe

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it's the navy who runs it i mean that

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looks like a small version of the

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stealth fighter you know it really

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doesn't look like a ufo per se

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you know it looks like a known aircraft

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here's the thing right now drones are

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illegal in the united states you cannot

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buy a when the drones that are being

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talked about you cannot buy one you

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cannot fly one uh the faa is going to

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open up

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the skyways to them

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probably sometime next year they might

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push it back to 2015

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but but right now you

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you can't get one your local police

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can't get their hands on them there's a

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half a dozen test areas

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you know across the country and that's

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it so

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they're really not at least over the

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united states

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with any regularity unless you're around

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a military test facility and they do

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have a uav unmanned aerial vehicle test

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facility in nevada i know um that's run

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by the air force i think they're there

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probably are more

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but you know other than that they're not

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in the american skies right now so

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you know i think a lot of people are are

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over hyping this yeah probably well you

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heard it first right here from michael

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lauc dronologist

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is that what you would be a

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dronologist um you probably want me to

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edit that out but i'm not going to

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i don't i don't know i uh i don't know

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what they would call me i mean

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in a lot of ways glorified

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model airplane dude

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yeah okay i like that all right eric von

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daniken releases new book remnants of

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the gods the newest book by eric von

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daniken will be released november 25th

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in the united states according to

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amazon.com although kindle editions are

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currently available

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in this update to his famous ancient

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aliens theory vandonakin moves through

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examples he maintains show alien

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influence in france turkey italy and of

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course egypt well ironically the guest

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in this uh podcast

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uh talks about him and so you'll have to

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listen in for that he points out

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some of the mistakes and things that

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were pointed out to him and the chariots

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of the gods and how he approached it

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he's got to be getting on in age do you

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know how old he is now

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you know i'm not sure but but chariots

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of the gods came out

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well over

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no in the 60s was it really it was

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written in the late 60s it might have

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come out in america in the 70s but it i

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believe it was 69

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that it that it came out in europe so

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about almost 45 years ago now wow you

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know

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if you really think about this whole

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thing about ancient aliens i don't think

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you and i have ever talked about that

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in the past but

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if you really think about it you know

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ten thousand years ago whatever is such

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a small sliver of time uh it wouldn't

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make any difference whether we were

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being visited then in my opinion what do

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you think

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i agree i mean a a visit from

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extraterrestrials is a visit from

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extraterrestrials

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um i i have to admit i don't understand

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the fascination with fond donakin i know

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he kind of popularized this theory but

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you know honestly it was in star trek

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you know yeah it it's not his original

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theory and he is not

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perhaps the greatest spokesperson for it

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in many ways he

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has a rather checkered past and he is

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not an academic in any way and i think

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he is an easy target for people who do

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want to kind of dismantle

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the whole overall theory

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when you say a checkered past

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i didn't realize there was a checkered

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past

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is this another conspiracy

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it's not a conspiracy here

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he actually embezzled money from a hotel

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i mean he was convicted of this in

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switzerland um i believe he was involved

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with some kind of criminal charges in

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egypt before that as well

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and that's how he funded the travels for

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chariots of the gods well someone had to

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pay for it

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yeah well yes

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but i mean that's not that's that

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doesn't put one on on the most solid and

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reputable ground to begin with

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and then like i said i mean he's not

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he's not an academic in any way shape or

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form although he he popularized the

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theory and kind of brought it into the

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mainstream perhaps um

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like like i said

280
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:44,720
40 years later i don't know that he

281
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:46,480
quite deserves

282
00:10:49,030 --> 00:10:47,279
the

283
00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:49,040
air of respect

284
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:50,000
that

285
00:10:54,310 --> 00:10:51,760
he is granted

286
00:10:57,269 --> 00:10:54,320
in the ufo community and i think he

287
00:10:59,110 --> 00:10:57,279
really might be more of a detriment in a

288
00:11:01,750 --> 00:10:59,120
lot of ways than a help

289
00:11:03,509 --> 00:11:01,760
yeah yeah i can see that hey you know

290
00:11:05,670 --> 00:11:03,519
last week we talked a little bit about

291
00:11:08,310 --> 00:11:05,680
art bell and we got we got quite a bit

292
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:08,320
of email about that uh

293
00:11:11,829 --> 00:11:10,480
of varying opinions and

294
00:11:14,550 --> 00:11:11,839
a lot of people didn't like all the

295
00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:14,560
things we said but you know i i've been

296
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:17,279
uh i'm friends with art on facebook as

297
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:18,000
in

298
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:21,360
is it five thousand is the limit or

299
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:22,720
something like that but

300
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:24,880
i i'm seeing the struggles he is going

301
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:26,640
through right now and he really can't do

302
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:28,880
anything with this non-compete clause

303
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:31,040
that he has in his contract with uh

304
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:33,440
siriusxm so who knows he's going to do

305
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:35,519
is because he's going to lay low but uh

306
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:39,200
he he well siriusxm has since um gone

307
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:40,640
back and

308
00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:42,959
renewed their contract with coast to

309
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:45,760
coast which had lapsed uh several months

310
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:47,519
ago and i believe

311
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:50,000
they were only on exit plans before and

312
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:51,760
now they are on both

313
00:11:57,509 --> 00:11:54,000
sirius and xm plans

314
00:12:00,069 --> 00:11:57,519
so i think they have uh decided to

315
00:12:02,389 --> 00:12:00,079
let mr bell's ship sail

316
00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:02,399
wow how about that i didn't hear any of

317
00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:04,560
this part when did that come out

318
00:12:09,829 --> 00:12:07,200
um it was just announced this week

319
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:09,839
so uh actually you know as far as when

320
00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:11,680
we're recording it was just announced by

321
00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:12,959
the time people are listening to this

322
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:14,880
it'll it'll be a couple days

323
00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:17,839
yeah hey is that it for the news today

324
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:20,000
uh that is it for the news today well

325
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:22,399
great well thanks michael and we do have

326
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:24,320
a little bit of a sound issue here you

327
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:25,519
can hear it we're trying to figure out

328
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:27,040
what's going on and hopefully we'll get

329
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:29,200
that uh get that fixed by next week well

330
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:30,959
thanks michael and i'll talk to you next

331
00:12:37,269 --> 00:12:31,839
week

332
00:13:12,069 --> 00:12:37,279
for this interview with don lincoln

333
00:13:12,079 --> 00:13:59,670
so

334
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:01,910
okay i'm with dawn lincoln how are you

335
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:02,880
don

336
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:05,600
fine and yourself great um you are a

337
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:08,560
physicist at the fermi lab and we were

338
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:10,800
talking about your book that came out

339
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,120
and can you say the title of that

340
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:15,120
yes the title of the book is alien

341
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:17,760
universe extraterrestrial life in our

342
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,839
minds and in the cosmos

343
00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:21,360
well that pretty much says it all right

344
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:22,959
there doesn't it

345
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:25,360
yeah that i i like the title i mean it

346
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:27,360
does it there was of course you know

347
00:14:31,590 --> 00:14:29,279
some discussion with the

348
00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:31,600
publisher as to what the proper one was

349
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:32,800
when we settled on this i was quite

350
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:35,440
happy with it yeah that's great now

351
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:37,199
before we get into

352
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:39,199
your book in general there's some

353
00:14:43,509 --> 00:14:41,040
questions i thought it would be great to

354
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:43,519
ask you that i've thought of and i

355
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:45,839
recently had an astronomer on i forgot

356
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:47,839
to ask him this question so this has to

357
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,079
do with the big bang basically the way

358
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,320
we calculate the big bang is by going

359
00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:54,639
backwards from our expanding universe

360
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:55,760
more or less

361
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:57,519
but with the discovery that the universe

362
00:15:02,470 --> 00:15:00,160
is actually expanding faster and faster

363
00:15:04,629 --> 00:15:02,480
a thought came to mind uh could you

364
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,639
assume that if it's going faster and

365
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:06,800
faster then maybe it used to expand

366
00:15:11,509 --> 00:15:09,600
slower and slower and if so that would

367
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:11,519
seem like it would make our estimate of

368
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:14,000
age of our universe very difficult to

369
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:16,800
judge what are your thoughts about that

370
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:18,399
well see here's the really nice thing

371
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:19,600
about that

372
00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:22,959
we are able to look out into deep space

373
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:25,040
and in doing so

374
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:26,480
we see things that are of course very

375
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:29,680
far away and a long time ago so it's not

376
00:15:33,750 --> 00:15:32,079
that we are guessing how the universe

377
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,760
was expanding in the past we actually

378
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,519
measure it

379
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:37,440
you look how far away they are you look

380
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:39,519
at the velocity that they're expanding

381
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,680
at and so the

382
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:43,519
age of the universe is actually pretty

383
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:45,199
accurately known

384
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:47,760
um it's uh

385
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:49,920
um known to like a part in a thousand or

386
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,399
so it's uh it's quite impressive

387
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,160
huh and i i understand that it's

388
00:15:58,269 --> 00:15:56,160
recently increased a little bit

389
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:58,279
uh yes our age calculation

390
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:01,040
13.8 billion or something like that

391
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:03,920
right it was uh something in the order

392
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:06,800
of 13.7 and now it's 13.8 so it's like

393
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:08,800
parts per thousand is where the changes

394
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:11,279
are occurring now would you ever

395
00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:12,800
consider the fact that it's a

396
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:15,759
possibility that the big bang theory

397
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:17,600
might be all wrong

398
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:20,000
this is one of the questions that one

399
00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:21,519
gets often

400
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:23,600
people somehow think of science in the

401
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:25,839
same way as people think of you know

402
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:27,920
political philosophy or religion or

403
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:30,880
something in science everything is open

404
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:32,959
to question always

405
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:35,440
it just happens that the data is

406
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:37,600
strongly supportive of the big bang

407
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:39,279
however if we find

408
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,959
some data that

409
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:43,199
uh is contrary to what the big bang

410
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,880
theory predicts then that big bang

411
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,399
theory is dead

412
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:48,240
scientists don't hang on to these

413
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,000
theories you know in sort of an

414
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:52,399
emotional way i mean we like them they

415
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:53,199
work

416
00:16:58,550 --> 00:16:56,800
but uh but sure i would easily uh drop

417
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:58,560
it if if the data point in that

418
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:00,959
direction yeah sometimes i wonder if we

419
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:03,600
know just a little tiny fragment of what

420
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:06,160
is really the truth in the universe

421
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:08,480
it's uh it's just so mysterious really

422
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:10,799
that's my own opinion of course with the

423
00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:14,240
discovery of the higgs boson recently

424
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:16,240
there's more or less solidifying of the

425
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,360
big bang theory can you explain how that

426
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:20,720
fits in

427
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:23,360
actually the higgs boson and the big

428
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:25,760
bang theory are really unrelated

429
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:27,280
um

430
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:29,679
they have some small connections uh the

431
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,520
big bang is simply the theory that the

432
00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:33,520
universe was once much smaller and

433
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:35,520
hotter and is now expanding from that

434
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:37,600
that primordial state

435
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:40,080
the higgs theory tries to explain the

436
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:43,360
behavior of matter at a stage in the

437
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,799
universe

438
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:46,720
and the large hadron collider where i do

439
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:48,720
my research we can recreate the

440
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:50,160
conditions of the universe about a

441
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,840
trillionth of a second after the big

442
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:53,120
bang

443
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:55,600
and that allows us to understand sort of

444
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:57,520
in detail the the very

445
00:18:02,710 --> 00:18:00,080
not the exact instant of the creation of

446
00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:02,720
the universe but shortly thereafter and

447
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:03,679
so

448
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:07,760
idea is totally wrong and we have to get

449
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:10,799
rid of it it doesn't negate anything the

450
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,960
sort of fundamental premise of the big

451
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:14,720
bang which was the universe was hotter

452
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:17,520
and smaller and is expanding so

453
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:18,559
you know

454
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:20,400
the higgs just tells us

455
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:21,280
a

456
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:36,400
higgs boson is

457
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:39,520
yes there are a lot of them and uh

458
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:41,520
if you uh

459
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:44,559
would like i can send you a lovely url i

460
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:47,760
made a video with the ted ed people that

461
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:50,720
is the best explanation in my opinion so

462
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:53,440
let me kind of sketch that out right now

463
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:56,000
about 20 years ago the british science

464
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:58,640
minister had a contest and asked

465
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:01,200
scientists to write down what was the

466
00:19:05,110 --> 00:19:02,960
nature of the higgs boson

467
00:19:06,789 --> 00:19:05,120
on one page of paper and so the winner

468
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:06,799
was a physicist by the name of david

469
00:19:08,830 --> 00:19:07,760
miller

470
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:08,840
and

471
00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:12,080
um what he described the

472
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:14,240
higgs both field and boson is the

473
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:15,280
following

474
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:17,919
because the higgs field is the thing

475
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:20,400
that gives particles matter and an

476
00:19:23,909 --> 00:19:22,160
analogy for that is suppose you have a

477
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:23,919
large cocktail party

478
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:27,039
and two people enter the room one is a

479
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:30,000
famous scientist say peter higgs and one

480
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:32,000
is a less famous scientist the less

481
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:33,679
famous scientist can walk across the

482
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:35,200
room and get to the bar without any

483
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:37,440
difficulty because he does not interact

484
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:38,799
much with the field

485
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:41,039
in contrast the peter higgs when he

486
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:42,559
walks across the

487
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:44,559
room people are wanting to talk to him

488
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:45,679
tell him about

489
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:47,600
ask him about his theory and so forth

490
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:49,760
and so he has a much more difficult time

491
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:51,679
crossing the room because he interacts

492
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:53,520
far more with the crowd

493
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:56,080
in the same way particles interact more

494
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:57,679
or less with a higgs field gaining more

495
00:20:02,549 --> 00:20:00,160
or less mass so that's how particles are

496
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:02,559
given mass by the higgs field the higgs

497
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:05,440
boson is a clump in the field it's like

498
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:06,799
a vibration

499
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:09,760
so um the analogy there

500
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:13,200
is suppose someone at the door

501
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:15,120
announced a little rumor

502
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:17,039
well the people near the door would

503
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:18,880
crowd around to find out what the rumor

504
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:20,240
is whereas people far away wouldn't even

505
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:21,919
know anything is going on

506
00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:24,240
however people near the clump talking

507
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,160
about the rumor would then drift over to

508
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:28,320
find out what's going on whereas once

509
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:29,520
people figured out what was going on

510
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:30,559
they'd go back to where they were

511
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,480
talking to their friends and in this way

512
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:35,039
this clump of the rumor would wander

513
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,960
across the room and that clump is

514
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:39,120
analogous to the higgs boson

515
00:20:42,149 --> 00:20:40,640
so the higgs field is the more

516
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:42,159
fundamental thing it's the thing that

517
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:44,960
gives mass to particles but the boson

518
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:47,440
the clump in the field is the way that

519
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:51,120
we are able to see the field and show

520
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:53,360
that this idea seems to be true

521
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,240
wow wow all right well getting back to

522
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:59,200
your book can you give our listeners an

523
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:01,360
overall synopsis of it

524
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:04,080
well the book has two parts to it um i

525
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:06,159
was sort of fascinated by the question

526
00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:08,559
of why when you walk down a

527
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:10,159
in a mall or something and you just

528
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:12,000
pigeonhole a random person say what does

529
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:14,000
an alien look like

530
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:15,760
the common answer you will get is a

531
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:18,480
little four foot tall humanoid creature

532
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:21,039
gray egg shaped head big almond shaped

533
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:21,919
eyes

534
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:23,039
and so

535
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:24,799
i was actually interested in how that

536
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:26,480
came to be i mean obviously we see it in

537
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:29,200
the media but i was trying to trace back

538
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:31,840
the development of that that

539
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:35,200
archetypical alien and then as i did

540
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:36,880
that you know i started remembering

541
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:38,720
cartoons when i was a kid when aliens

542
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:40,559
were little green men and when that

543
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:43,039
transition occurred and and so forth so

544
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:45,919
i ended up digging into the history of

545
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:48,880
not necessarily um

546
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:52,240
all alien reports because that's a great

547
00:21:56,830 --> 00:21:54,320
broad uh

548
00:22:00,070 --> 00:21:56,840
body of knowledge but

549
00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:00,080
the ones that made a big impact on our

550
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:01,200
culture

551
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:04,000
and so for that um you hit the high or

552
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:06,320
you hit the biggies um

553
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:09,120
starting with the initial ufo reports in

554
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:13,200
1947 through roswell um and then some of

555
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:14,320
the other

556
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:16,080
big people george adamski betty and

557
00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:17,200
barney hill

558
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:19,919
um bondanigan and so forth and these

559
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:20,720
were

560
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:22,400
um

561
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,919
you know i just wanted to look into that

562
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:25,200
and see how

563
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:26,559
these reports

564
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:29,200
fed the media because

565
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:30,960
most people don't get their uh

566
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:32,480
information from

567
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,440
um

568
00:22:37,350 --> 00:22:35,440
reports about ufos or extraterrestrials

569
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:37,360
they basically see things

570
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:39,120
on tv in the movies and so i was

571
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:40,880
interested in the interplay between the

572
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:43,280
reports in the movies and how the movies

573
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:44,720
told people

574
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:46,960
what um

575
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:48,880
what they should be looking for

576
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:51,919
and a classic case of that this is the

577
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:54,640
first report of ufos

578
00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:56,000
in

579
00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:01,679
were reported as

580
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:03,919
being like the tale of a kite

581
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:04,960
and

582
00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:08,080
other descriptions like fish flipping in

583
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:11,280
in the sky and so forth

584
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:13,919
and finally the person doing the report

585
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:16,320
talked to a reporter and said

586
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:18,640
the things moved like a saucer skipping

587
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:20,080
across the water

588
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:21,360
and so if you actually read that

589
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,840
original report but the reporter

590
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,520
said what what

591
00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:27,200
the observer saw

592
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:29,840
but um the headline writers said um guys

593
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:32,400
he's fl uh flying saucer and so

594
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:33,760
immediately after that people started

595
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:35,200
seeing flying saucers even though that

596
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:36,880
really wasn't what the original report

597
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:38,960
was and so this kind of

598
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:40,320
feedback

599
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:42,240
was very interesting to me so that's the

600
00:23:46,789 --> 00:23:43,760
first half of the book

601
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,799
the second half of the book um i felt

602
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:48,960
that it would be interesting to say or

603
00:23:53,029 --> 00:23:52,240
to explore what modern science teaches

604
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:53,039
us

605
00:23:59,270 --> 00:23:57,760
to read science fiction as a kid i read

606
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:59,280
thousands of science fiction books and i

607
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:01,600
loved them but i mean there are things

608
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:04,320
that are just simply impossible and by

609
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:06,720
understanding things like

610
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:09,200
how chemistry what limits chemistry

611
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:12,480
places on the possible for instance it's

612
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,960
essentially impossible to have a helium

613
00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:16,240
um

614
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:19,520
is not something that interacts

615
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:22,720
chemically it just it doesn't work

616
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:24,720
so you can't have a body made of helium

617
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:27,600
for instance and uh

618
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:29,600
as you explore that you find out why

619
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:34,310
atom

620
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:36,080
but also silicon which has similar

621
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:37,840
chemical properties

622
00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:41,039
is not as good a

623
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:43,760
building block of life as

624
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:45,120
carbon is because it doesn't have

625
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:46,960
exactly the same properties so anyways

626
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:48,640
the second half of the book describes a

627
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:51,760
lot about what science tells us about

628
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:54,000
the possible i mean i don't know and a

629
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:56,799
reader who reads my book won't come out

630
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:58,000
being told this is what an

631
00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:00,320
extraterrestrial might look like because

632
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:01,919
nobody knows but we know a lot about

633
00:25:06,549 --> 00:25:04,159
what it won't be and so that's what the

634
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:06,559
second half of the book is about

635
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:09,039
well i'm kind of interested to hear what

636
00:25:15,909 --> 00:25:12,960
it won't be that's kind of interesting

637
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:15,919
well it comes down to

638
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:18,799
really chemistry and atomic physics

639
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:21,279
um if you look at a periodic table uh

640
00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:22,720
there are various columns the right hand

641
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:24,799
column has helium neon argon and so

642
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:26,960
forth those are noble gases those don't

643
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:28,799
interact very much and so they don't

644
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:31,200
play any significant role in chemistry

645
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:32,799
because these atoms just sit there and

646
00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:34,320
mind their own business

647
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:35,679
on the left hand side you have things

648
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:38,080
like hydrogen lithium and so forth and

649
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:39,039
these

650
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:42,720
elements only can have one bond

651
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:44,720
and because they have one bond they can

652
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:47,200
only make very simple molecules

653
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,480
so to have

654
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:50,880
something as complex as life any kind of

655
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:52,960
life you will need

656
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:53,919
a

657
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:01,360
um

658
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:03,919
extraterrestrial life in general this is

659
00:26:09,669 --> 00:26:06,720
not about you know slime molds around

660
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:09,679
deneb iv or

661
00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:11,679
algae around some

662
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:14,320
planet near beetlejuice this is about

663
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:16,799
intelligent extraterrestrial life and so

664
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,159
that puts a significant

665
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:22,559
restriction on the kinds of life we can

666
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:25,520
think about because anything that is

667
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:27,440
comparable to us not

668
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,320
like

669
00:26:32,789 --> 00:26:30,880
humans by any means but comparable to in

670
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:32,799
the sense that it's intelligent tool

671
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:35,840
using and could conceivably one day vi

672
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:38,400
with humanity for galactic domination

673
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:42,080
has to be made of complex chemicals

674
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:44,640
and so once you start exploring that you

675
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:47,360
find that

676
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:49,600
there are only some

677
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:52,159
elements that can can have many bonds

678
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:55,200
carbon being the best silicon is often

679
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:57,679
used as an example

680
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:59,039
as another

681
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:01,120
element that can have four bonds

682
00:27:05,909 --> 00:27:03,760
but if you explore it in more detail you

683
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:05,919
find that even though carbon can have

684
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:07,760
four bonds or

685
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,679
let me rephrase that carbon can have

686
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:12,000
four bonds and all four bonds have sort

687
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:13,840
of equal strength

688
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:15,840
silicon on the other hand can have four

689
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,760
bonds but not all the bonds are equal

690
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:19,200
strength so it makes it difficult to

691
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:21,520
move atoms around easily

692
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:23,760
whereas in carbon

693
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:25,039
you can move atoms around and that

694
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:28,240
allows for complex chemistry in addition

695
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:29,200
the

696
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:31,679
bond between carbon and hydrogen carbon

697
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,760
and oxygen carbon and nitrogen are all

698
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:35,760
similar in strength and so it makes it

699
00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:38,000
fairly easy to

700
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:40,799
swap in various elements whereas in

701
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:43,520
silicon a silicon oxygen bond is very

702
00:27:48,390 --> 00:27:45,520
strong so once the silicon

703
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:48,400
is bound with oxygen that's basically

704
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,400
sand silicon dioxide

705
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:52,320
it is very difficult to break it apart

706
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:55,039
and bond silicon with carbon or silicon

707
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:56,000
with

708
00:28:00,389 --> 00:27:59,039
elements

709
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:00,399
and so

710
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:03,600
you know silicon is just not an optimum

711
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:05,520
uh element even though there's plenty of

712
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:07,200
examples in science fiction of silicon

713
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:08,320
based life

714
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:09,200
um

715
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:13,200
it's hard to imagine that that silicon

716
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:14,000
is

717
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:15,760
you know a good

718
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:18,159
candidate for life and let me give you

719
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:20,960
one sort of compelling thought

720
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,679
um if you look at earth

721
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:25,360
there's far more silicon on the surface

722
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:27,200
of the earth and carb than carbon so

723
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:29,600
there's a huge reservoir of silicon and

724
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:33,039
yet life on earth uses carbon i mean it

725
00:28:36,070 --> 00:28:35,200
says something about the uh

726
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:36,080
um

727
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:41,840
two elements wow i never never heard

728
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:44,799
that part of it would you could consider

729
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:47,760
that the most likely type of being would

730
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:52,559
be uh binocular vision and biped

731
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:54,000
oh i doubt it

732
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:55,919
i doubt it okay

733
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:00,399
um i i you know i i am

734
00:29:04,870 --> 00:29:03,360
as yet unconvinced as to the existence

735
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:04,880
of um

736
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,559
intelligent extraterrestrial life i

737
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:08,640
think the data on that is not

738
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:09,840
incredibly

739
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,120
compelling but um when you just think of

740
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:15,600
the variety of life that there is here

741
00:29:18,789 --> 00:29:17,679
on earth i mean spiders

742
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:18,799
uh with

743
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:21,840
multiple eyes and and so forth and how

744
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:23,760
many times uh

745
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:24,840
vision

746
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:26,640
has

747
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:27,760
evolved

748
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:30,559
independently in different life forms if

749
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,559
you just look at the vast variety of

750
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:34,480
life here on earth

751
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:38,960
i think the the bipedal or nature is

752
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:40,880
basically an accident an evolutionary

753
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:43,360
accident that works but i don't think

754
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:46,320
it's unique are your opinions on

755
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:48,480
extraterrestrial life that you believe

756
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:50,799
you don't believe that it's actually out

757
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:53,520
there or did i just take that wrong

758
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:55,200
no what i think i would be willing to

759
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:57,600
say about extraterrestrial life is i

760
00:30:02,070 --> 00:29:59,600
think life is probably fairly common in

761
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:02,080
the universe where life

762
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:03,760
by by life i mean

763
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:06,320
a very low threshold of life i think

764
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:08,480
intelligent life is probably far more

765
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:09,760
difficult

766
00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:11,360
and quite rare

767
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:13,840
um i am quite open to the possibility i

768
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:15,360
think it's probable that there is

769
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:17,039
intelligent life in the universe

770
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:19,039
somewhere the universe is big

771
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:20,640
but

772
00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:23,279
whether it's near us or some not i i

773
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:24,399
think is

774
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:26,159
you know it's less probable because well

775
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:29,279
the spot near us is small and space is

776
00:30:31,909 --> 00:30:30,159
big

777
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,919
um and then there's the question of

778
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:33,440
whether we are being visited or

779
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:35,200
something and i think that's quite quite

780
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:36,960
unlikely

781
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,520
i don't you know as a scientist i remain

782
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:41,600
open to new evidence

783
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:45,520
but i would characterize myself as a

784
00:30:50,549 --> 00:30:47,840
fairly strong believer in life

785
00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:50,559
a believer in intelligent life but think

786
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:52,559
it's rare and

787
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:54,799
probably not nearby

788
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:56,399
well i promise you i wouldn't debate you

789
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,640
about ufos so

790
00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:00,080
so i won't but

791
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:03,039
you said that it's very unlikely but you

792
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:05,039
think that it is possible i mean you

793
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,720
look at what we are doing we're

794
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:08,640
exploring space as much as we have the

795
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:10,320
know how to do

796
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:12,720
if there's an advanced technology that

797
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:14,399
figures out how to do interstellar

798
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:15,679
travel

799
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:18,240
through physics way beyond us do you

800
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,399
think it is possible that we have been

801
00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:22,559
visited

802
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:25,520
possible a possible a

803
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:28,159
soft word but yes anything's possible

804
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:30,399
um yes it's possible

805
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:33,200
but possible and likely are different

806
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:34,320
um

807
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:36,640
i certainly uh

808
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:38,320
i mean i'm quite cognizant of the

809
00:31:42,549 --> 00:31:40,799
difficulties of interstellar travel and

810
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:42,559
yes it is possible that something that

811
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:43,679
we see

812
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:46,000
in science fiction like warp drive or

813
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:48,000
something like that might be invented

814
00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:49,840
and i you know i actually really

815
00:31:54,789 --> 00:31:51,519
seriously hope it is

816
00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:54,799
but i don't really understand how

817
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:56,799
things like generation ships and things

818
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:58,240
like that are of course possible i

819
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:01,200
suspect that someday um

820
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,200
it may be that mankind takes upon itself

821
00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:05,840
to explore the galaxy but it'll probably

822
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,640
be

823
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:08,880
in sort of a tedious way of traveling

824
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:10,080
like that either

825
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:12,880
using um using relativity to make the

826
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:14,880
trip seem shorter

827
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:16,159
or

828
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:17,760
through some kind of

829
00:32:20,950 --> 00:32:19,519
sleep technology or generational ships

830
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:20,960
or whatever

831
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:22,799
and i hope i'm wrong i really do hope

832
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:24,880
that the you know starship enterprise

833
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:27,279
starts zipping around the universe but i

834
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:28,960
remain skeptical

835
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,840
yeah

836
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:32,240
now how have your colleagues viewed your

837
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:33,120
book

838
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:36,080
um i think my colleagues

839
00:32:40,830 --> 00:32:39,120
have been supportive of it since it is

840
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:40,840
not inside their

841
00:32:45,269 --> 00:32:43,360
particular um

842
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:45,279
topic of interest

843
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:46,720
i have not had a whole lot of

844
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,640
discussions i got far more

845
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:50,799
discussion from the other books i wrote

846
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:52,480
which were more on particle physics and

847
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:54,399
cosmology and things like that

848
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:56,880
the alien book the my colleagues you

849
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:57,600
know

850
00:33:02,070 --> 00:32:59,279
patted me on the back for doing it but

851
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:02,080
uh that's sort of the extent of their

852
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:03,279
interest

853
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:05,120
so what was the initiator of you

854
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,039
starting the book

855
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:09,200
well the initiator of the book

856
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,760
was basically

857
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:13,440
um

858
00:33:18,310 --> 00:33:15,360
i was curious about aliens when i was a

859
00:33:20,789 --> 00:33:18,320
kid i was curious about

860
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,799
science fiction as a kid and as i grew

861
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:22,399
older

862
00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:23,120
and

863
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:26,159
understood science better i realized the

864
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:28,320
um that a lot of science fiction is not

865
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:29,440
accurate

866
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:31,039
and so i thought it would be kind of

867
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:32,720
neat to write a book

868
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:33,679
that

869
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:35,519
sort of blended the two had some science

870
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:37,440
fiction and had some science

871
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:41,360
and the stories that i have about uh

872
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:42,720
sightings of

873
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:48,000
the last 50 plus years

874
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:49,919
draw people in and then they can

875
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:53,039
actually read about what the

876
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:54,240
science of

877
00:33:58,230 --> 00:33:56,559
astrobiology is likely to be

878
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:58,240
and so i thought it was kind of a neat

879
00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:00,399
way of merging these two

880
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:03,120
two interests the science fiction buff

881
00:34:08,069 --> 00:34:05,200
and the science buff so it's kind of why

882
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:08,079
it was designed that way um and we will

883
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,320
see if this was successful

884
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:12,560
right right well you know getting back

885
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:14,879
to ufos i told you i would just touch on

886
00:34:17,589 --> 00:34:16,639
it lightly

887
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:17,599
one of the

888
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:19,599
things that comes to mind is you know

889
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:21,839
there are astronauts that have claimed

890
00:34:24,629 --> 00:34:23,599
i've seen something there was

891
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:24,639
you know the

892
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,560
governor of arizona

893
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:28,560
uh along with about ten thousand

894
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:30,560
witnesses the phoenix lights and i don't

895
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:32,240
know if you've ever heard of that but

896
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:34,159
there's there was mass many mass

897
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:36,800
sightings and many credible witnesses

898
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:39,679
as far as police officers and military

899
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:42,079
that have come forth and could not

900
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:44,320
really be explained as to what they were

901
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:45,599
have you ever

902
00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:47,599
looked into any of that

903
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,320
i cannot say that i am a scholar of what

904
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:52,800
one might call as ufology

905
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:53,839
um

906
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:56,960
and i don't hold uh up uh police

907
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:59,359
officers or

908
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:00,640
um

909
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:06,320
reporters than any other person there

910
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:07,119
are

911
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:08,160
there's a tremendous amount of

912
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,920
psychology out there

913
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:11,520
that um

914
00:35:18,069 --> 00:35:15,280
describes and explores how people

915
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:18,079
uh can be mistaken in their observations

916
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:19,760
i mean i'm a scientist and i have more

917
00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:21,200
than once

918
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:23,200
thought i knew something been absolutely

919
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:24,160
sure

920
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:25,839
i was right only to find out i was later

921
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:26,640
wrong

922
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:30,960
now i don't discount these reports

923
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,320
but

924
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:34,560
the the anecdotal reports

925
00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:37,520
that one gets do not persuade me that

926
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:39,839
does not mean that i think these people

927
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:41,200
are lying

928
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:44,240
they might actually be seeing exactly

929
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:45,839
what they think they're seeing in which

930
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:48,079
case nobody would be more pleased than i

931
00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:49,599
i mean i really wouldn't be at all

932
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:51,040
displeased to see

933
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:52,720
you know flying saucer descend on

934
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:54,480
washington and have a little guy come

935
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:56,000
out and say take you take us to your

936
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:59,839
leader that would be fantastic um but

937
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:00,640
but

938
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:02,960
um in order to persuade me i would like

939
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,000
to see

940
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:06,160
better evidence i mean you know there's

941
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:08,560
in the problem is with so much of this

942
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:10,720
ufology is that there is a tremendous

943
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:13,200
amount of hoaxes and charlatans and so

944
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,160
forth and people who are

945
00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:18,480
what i might call honest uh ufo

946
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:20,160
researchers are aware of that and they

947
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:21,920
try to to

948
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:24,079
you know get rid of those

949
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:25,200
um

950
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:26,800
but

951
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:29,200
i just will need a lot better evidence

952
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:31,680
than i have seen so far

953
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:34,240
and and and i admit that i am not you

954
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:36,480
know not dug into every particular

955
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:37,520
report

956
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:38,960
but um

957
00:36:44,069 --> 00:36:41,760
you know we live in a world with um

958
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:44,079
everybody's got a cell phone we live in

959
00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:46,800
a world where

960
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:48,000
you know it's just seems that it would

961
00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:50,720
be easier to get far better evidence

962
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:52,400
than the things that i've seen

963
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:54,240
everything i see is always you know kind

964
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:56,240
of fuzzy and

965
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:58,000
camera jitters and

966
00:37:01,349 --> 00:37:00,000
or it's just a report of something

967
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:01,359
someone saw and of course i've seen

968
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:03,440
things that i don't know what they are

969
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:06,000
myself i don't mean ufos just you know

970
00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:07,280
things out of the corner of my eye and i

971
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:10,480
turn and it's not there so um

972
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:13,119
yeah i just need a stronger

973
00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:15,359
level of evidence to persuade me

974
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:17,520
i understand and the other scientists

975
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:19,040
i've spoke to have

976
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:21,280
said very similar things

977
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:23,599
and i think it it's to the point where

978
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:25,359
either if the

979
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:28,720
the image or the video is blurry then

980
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:30,800
it's discounted but if it's too good

981
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:33,520
then it's also discounted as being fake

982
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:36,800
even video or or photo evidences is weak

983
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:38,880
unless the witness reports are real

984
00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:41,599
solid and uh it is a very alluding

985
00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:43,359
phenomenon for sure

986
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:45,680
so this kind of leads me to ask you what

987
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:48,160
you think about seti

988
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:50,160
i think it's fantastic i wrote about it

989
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:51,680
in the book the last chapter of the book

990
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:53,040
is about seti

991
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:56,880
i think um given the difficulties

992
00:38:01,510 --> 00:37:59,760
that with extraterrestrial travel as we

993
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:01,520
understand it now setting aside such

994
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:04,480
things as warp drive and

995
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:08,000
you know star gates and whatnot um

996
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:10,240
we do know that you can

997
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,680
uh radio waves can travel

998
00:38:16,829 --> 00:38:15,280
many light years hundreds of lights

999
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:16,839
thousands of light years

1000
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:19,520
so it would not shock me in the

1001
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:22,960
slightest if there is a nearby

1002
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:25,440
extraterrestrial civilization at our

1003
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:28,400
level of of sophistication or higher

1004
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:30,880
that the first way we'll encounter it is

1005
00:38:36,550 --> 00:38:34,160
through radio contact so i'm very

1006
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:36,560
strongly supportive of that i mean i

1007
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,119
really would like to to

1008
00:38:43,349 --> 00:38:41,760
um find out that we're not alone

1009
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:43,359
but uh

1010
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:45,280
you know i think that the seti's

1011
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:47,440
probably the best way to do that our

1012
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:48,720
last guest

1013
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:50,640
who's an astronomer was

1014
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:51,760
saying that

1015
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:54,160
it's a possibility to see signs of life

1016
00:38:59,829 --> 00:38:57,280
through chemical analysis of exoplanets

1017
00:39:01,589 --> 00:38:59,839
so that is also another way to explore

1018
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:01,599
and it seems like we are getting closer

1019
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:04,079
and closer to finding that that truth

1020
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:04,880
out

1021
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:07,200
oh absolutely um it's a shame that the

1022
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:10,240
kepler satellite the the gyroscopes

1023
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:12,320
broke i mean yes that that's that's

1024
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:15,200
that's a complete shame i hope that nasa

1025
00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:16,640
puts something else up there and keeps

1026
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:18,640
working on that because that is

1027
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:21,119
fascinating science i think it's taken

1028
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:24,000
us a leap forward for sure and i i

1029
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:25,599
really hope that they continue that i

1030
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:28,160
think it's very very important and i

1031
00:39:31,910 --> 00:39:29,920
hope they get the funding for it can you

1032
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:31,920
touch on a couple of other areas in your

1033
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:34,880
book that are interesting

1034
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:36,320
well

1035
00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:38,000
it's all interesting every every single

1036
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:39,200
word of it if i didn't it wasn't

1037
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:40,480
interesting i wouldn't have written it i

1038
00:39:43,349 --> 00:39:42,480
didn't like that

1039
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,359
i know

1040
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:45,680
um i like the stories i mean there are

1041
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:48,640
people in who are clearly clever and

1042
00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:51,119
fakes and uh but they have an impact uh

1043
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:54,240
for instance george adamski um

1044
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:57,520
you know if you read his the story um i

1045
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:58,960
don't know if the your

1046
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:00,560
listeners are completely familiar with

1047
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:03,440
it but he was a spiritual leader he had

1048
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:04,880
um

1049
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:09,200
students that would be with him and

1050
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:11,200
one day he took them and

1051
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:12,960
some of his students and a few other

1052
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:14,800
people into the wilderness

1053
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:16,880
and told them to wait while he went off

1054
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:23,030
aliens ufos

1055
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:25,040
and and actual people and these people

1056
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:26,400
were beautiful

1057
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:28,800
um reminiscent of angels

1058
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:31,280
and so then he came back with a message

1059
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:34,160
from them i mean this just you know is a

1060
00:40:40,310 --> 00:40:37,680
lovely uh use of

1061
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:40,320
an awful lot of religious um stories

1062
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:42,240
that have happened over the years and

1063
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:46,000
now damski i'm pretty confident was uh

1064
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:47,760
caught man um

1065
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:49,200
and that's

1066
00:40:54,310 --> 00:40:52,640
perhaps harsh but i mean this guy was uh

1067
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:54,320
charming and genial

1068
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:56,720
and uh later in life he went around

1069
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,280
giving talks accompanied by the nugent

1070
00:41:02,230 --> 00:41:00,800
bodyguards which are these two

1071
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:02,240
statuesque

1072
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:04,960
amazonian women beautiful women

1073
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:06,960
they're supposed to be his uh

1074
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:08,640
bodyguards from venus

1075
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:10,720
and then he explained uh what the back

1076
00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:12,079
of the moon looked like and what venus

1077
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:14,480
looked like and so forth um

1078
00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:16,160
which we now know to be completely

1079
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:19,119
untrue um but it's a lovely story he's a

1080
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:22,000
charming man um von danikan's another

1081
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,400
guy who i talk a little bit about and i

1082
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:26,079
mean

1083
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:28,160
you know i i am unpred i was never

1084
00:41:33,750 --> 00:41:31,359
persuaded by his um writings although

1085
00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:33,760
when his writings came out i was a uh

1086
00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:35,839
teenager and i read them avidly i

1087
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:37,920
thought they were amazing but i've

1088
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:39,839
actually seen him

1089
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:42,000
speak i mean recordings of him speaking

1090
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:44,480
where people pointed out

1091
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:46,720
inaccuracies in what he wrote and he

1092
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:48,880
would say things like well you know

1093
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:50,319
sometimes you have to change the story

1094
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:51,680
to make it a little bit better i mean

1095
00:41:55,589 --> 00:41:53,200
and he said that it's not like people

1096
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:55,599
reported it and i wrote a trans i mean i

1097
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:57,599
read a transcript i saw this guy say

1098
00:42:02,950 --> 00:41:59,920
that yeah so um

1099
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:02,960
you know it's i like that part of it too

1100
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:04,480
because there's a lovely human element

1101
00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:07,520
to this people want there to be

1102
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,560
um

1103
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:10,800
you know extraterrestrials

1104
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:13,280
or at least a lot of people do i mean it

1105
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:15,040
it's it

1106
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:18,319
um you know it excites the imagination

1107
00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:21,040
and so people who tell these stories are

1108
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:23,680
telling them to an audience that that

1109
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:26,800
wants them to be true so i i you know

1110
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:28,880
very much enjoyed learning about some of

1111
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:32,640
these characters as i did the research

1112
00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:34,319
there's another neat story in the book

1113
00:42:37,829 --> 00:42:35,440
that i like

1114
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:37,839
and this is in 1835 it's the great moon

1115
00:42:41,589 --> 00:42:39,680
hoax

1116
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:41,599
and

1117
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:45,920
in the new york sun they had a multi-day

1118
00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:50,000
article talking about how a researcher

1119
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:52,079
figured out some way to hook a

1120
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:53,839
microscope up to a telescope so that he

1121
00:42:57,750 --> 00:42:55,920
could look at the moon

1122
00:42:58,790 --> 00:42:57,760
well enough to actually see insects on

1123
00:43:02,870 --> 00:42:58,800
the moon

1124
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:02,880
and over the course of the multiple days

1125
00:43:08,710 --> 00:43:05,599
the story unfolded as to what was seen

1126
00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:08,720
on each day ending up with

1127
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:11,680
alien life on the moon and that was neat

1128
00:43:15,270 --> 00:43:13,040
it was well known to be a hoax

1129
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:15,280
scientists knew that it was a hoax but

1130
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:17,200
it took the world by storm and the thing

1131
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:19,680
i found interesting about that is it did

1132
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:22,079
occur in 1835 and why is that

1133
00:43:26,069 --> 00:43:24,000
interesting well it's because it was

1134
00:43:28,710 --> 00:43:26,079
only in 1830

1135
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:28,720
that inexpensive newspapers were

1136
00:43:33,670 --> 00:43:30,880
available prior to that newspapers were

1137
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:33,680
very expensive and only printed for the

1138
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:34,640
wealthy

1139
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:37,200
but the in in 1830 they had what they

1140
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:39,599
called the penny press so a newspaper

1141
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:41,200
would cost a penny

1142
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:42,960
and um

1143
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:44,800
the the way that business model worked

1144
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:47,200
is if you made it for a penny you had to

1145
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:49,040
sell a ton of them and so that was the

1146
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,599
era where you have got little kids with

1147
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,280
hats on saying extra extra read all

1148
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:55,280
about it began

1149
00:44:00,470 --> 00:43:57,040
and

1150
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:00,480
so with the advent of this new

1151
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:04,000
multimedia that allows people to

1152
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:06,960
communicate much more freely than before

1153
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:09,520
we had this first mass hoax of

1154
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:11,920
life on the moon and

1155
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:13,760
you know we live in a new world now

1156
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:16,640
where the internet provides a amazing

1157
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:20,160
amount of ability to communicate and so

1158
00:44:25,829 --> 00:44:23,760
we see and not i'm not picking on um

1159
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:25,839
you know ufos or aliens here you see an

1160
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:29,359
awful lot of hoaxes and so forth because

1161
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:32,079
they're the filter between

1162
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:34,640
the writer and the reader there's often

1163
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:36,560
not the editor there to

1164
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:38,160
weed out the uh

1165
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:40,800
shall we say creative stories there but

1166
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:44,160
anyways i really like this this uh um

1167
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:46,720
uh the moon hoax of 1835 i i was unaware

1168
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:48,960
of this when i started my book yeah that

1169
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:50,720
that really is amazing i didn't know the

1170
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:52,160
details of that

1171
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:53,839
i've always wondered what the genesis of

1172
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:56,400
hoaxers are and a lot of them is fame

1173
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:58,720
possibly but also along the lines of

1174
00:45:01,750 --> 00:45:00,319
what you're talking about

1175
00:45:03,829 --> 00:45:01,760
most likely

1176
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:03,839
now arthur

1177
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:05,280
had a nice

1178
00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:07,280
uh saying he said two possibilities

1179
00:45:11,589 --> 00:45:09,599
exist either we're alone in the universe

1180
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:11,599
or not either one is terrifying it's

1181
00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:13,040
along those lines

1182
00:45:18,309 --> 00:45:15,760
um kind of goes along with uh with your

1183
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:18,319
book and what you're you're saying here

1184
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:20,560
it's true and if there is life out there

1185
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,720
it's potentially terrifying because i

1186
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:24,560
mean

1187
00:45:29,589 --> 00:45:27,680
it's hard to understand the psychology

1188
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:29,599
of a species that we can't even

1189
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:32,000
understand their biology but we do have

1190
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:34,720
ample examples in our history of

1191
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:36,640
advanced cultures encountering less

1192
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:39,359
advanced less advanced cultures and the

1193
00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:42,960
less advanced cultures rarely do well

1194
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:44,560
and if

1195
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:47,119
aliens were to come to earth

1196
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:49,520
uh they certainly have a transport

1197
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,359
technology that we don't have

1198
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:53,280
there it is possible that they would

1199
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,119
have other technology weapons and so

1200
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:57,440
forth so you know

1201
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,359
there's a degree to which

1202
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:01,440
you have to wonder is it really a good

1203
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:03,440
idea to be telling the universe that

1204
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:05,599
we're here

1205
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:08,800
yeah we can't uh we can't stop all the

1206
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:10,640
radio signals we sent out already though

1207
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:12,800
for one thing that's true

1208
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:14,560
yeah that's only a radio bubble that's

1209
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:16,160
only 100 light years in every direction

1210
00:46:21,270 --> 00:46:18,000
and there are not many

1211
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:21,280
pla stars in that bubble

1212
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:25,359
that that have uh

1213
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:28,000
that are sufficiently similar to ours

1214
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,480
that it would be likely that creatures

1215
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:32,400
would have a similar biology and be

1216
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:33,599
interested in

1217
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:36,000
in earth i mean if you had creatures

1218
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:37,839
that i don't know like to live on titan

1219
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:39,920
or something they might come here and

1220
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:42,720
hang out on titan but it's uh you know

1221
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:44,160
they wouldn't like living here would be

1222
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,839
a bad place for them

1223
00:46:47,829 --> 00:46:46,800
so

1224
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:47,839
i mean

1225
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:48,640
you know

1226
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:50,800
it plus another thing is 100 years ago

1227
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:52,400
the radio signals really weren't that

1228
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,680
strong

1229
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,920
so the the real effective bubble is

1230
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:57,839
smaller than that but it's true it's

1231
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:59,119
absolutely true that we have a radio

1232
00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:01,040
bubble and it's expanding and if there's

1233
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,960
something out there listening he might

1234
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:04,079
say hi

1235
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:07,359
right right now the last guest i had on

1236
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:10,960
the astronomer said that with the

1237
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:13,760
work that kepler has been doing

1238
00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:15,920
you can calculate that in our galaxy

1239
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:18,400
alone there's possibly 17

1240
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:20,960
billion habitable planets and growing

1241
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:24,400
that was according to what he said

1242
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:27,359
but you mentioned earlier that

1243
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:29,680
the possibility for life and the

1244
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:31,599
possibility for intelligent life there's

1245
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:33,359
a big difference can you go into that a

1246
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:34,400
little more

1247
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:35,440
well

1248
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:38,319
this is just a numbers game and we only

1249
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:40,960
have one example to really look at

1250
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,000
but we are we know that life formed on

1251
00:47:48,069 --> 00:47:46,319
earth shortly after

1252
00:47:50,309 --> 00:47:48,079
um the earth cooled enough to have a

1253
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:50,319
solid surface in water

1254
00:47:55,589 --> 00:47:51,520
um

1255
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:55,599
on your

1256
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:57,280
threshold of belief

1257
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:58,160
but

1258
00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:01,119
um life could have formed on earth

1259
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:02,720
you know of order three billion years

1260
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:05,520
ago and that's not long after the

1261
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:08,400
you know it became even possible

1262
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:09,760
on the other hand

1263
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:11,520
from you know three billion or twenty

1264
00:48:16,550 --> 00:48:14,160
two and a half billion years ago to

1265
00:48:18,829 --> 00:48:16,560
500 million years ago you had

1266
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:18,839
unsophisticated life

1267
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:21,839
underwater uh often unicellular and some

1268
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:23,040
of it was not unicellular was

1269
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:25,040
multicellular but it was not

1270
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:28,000
um very complex it's only 500 million

1271
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:29,520
years ago so

1272
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:31,680
you know billions of years of life

1273
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:34,960
before we had uh for a little bit more

1274
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:37,119
complex life where oxygen started to

1275
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,599
become prevalent in the atmosphere and

1276
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,520
oxygen provided the power to make

1277
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:43,359
animals possible

1278
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:44,480
um

1279
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:47,200
and then from there 500 million years

1280
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:49,280
ago to

1281
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:51,920
you know you could set the threshold in

1282
00:48:55,750 --> 00:48:53,760
several places but approximately a

1283
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:55,760
hundred thousand years ago homo sapiens

1284
00:49:01,349 --> 00:48:58,079
evolved you might go back a few million

1285
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:01,359
years ago prior to that where um

1286
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:05,119
the hominid line evolved um but if we

1287
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:07,119
didn't exist if the hominid line got

1288
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:08,400
wiped out

1289
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:10,640
and this came close a couple of times in

1290
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:12,800
our species history

1291
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:14,000
there's no

1292
00:49:21,109 --> 00:49:17,920
know we're not fighting with intelligent

1293
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:21,119
cats or something like that and so

1294
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:22,079
the

1295
00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:25,760
um it took a long time for our variety

1296
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:27,760
of intelligence to evolve

1297
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:29,760
whereas it took life almost no time to

1298
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:30,640
begin

1299
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:33,200
and so granted it's only one planet it's

1300
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:35,520
hard to generalize from a single data

1301
00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:36,400
point

1302
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:38,240
but

1303
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:40,640
uh it's not completely fair to call it a

1304
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:42,160
single data point because there were

1305
00:49:46,309 --> 00:49:45,200
those 500 million years from

1306
00:49:50,069 --> 00:49:46,319
uh

1307
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:50,079
sort of complex multicellular life to us

1308
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:51,040
and

1309
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:52,480
you know it didn't evolve dinosaurs

1310
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,880
didn't evolve our kind of intelligence

1311
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,640
you know earlier creatures didn't it

1312
00:49:59,670 --> 00:49:58,640
took a very long time and that suggests

1313
00:50:01,270 --> 00:49:59,680
to me

1314
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:01,280
given the millions of species that are

1315
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:04,000
out there that intelligent life is rare

1316
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:04,960
and

1317
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:07,760
it's not a airtight case i don't suggest

1318
00:50:11,829 --> 00:50:09,920
that it is but i think it's a compelling

1319
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:11,839
case

1320
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:13,200
your book you

1321
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:15,200
mentioned basically that

1322
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:17,520
intelligent life if it were underwater

1323
00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:19,200
it couldn't really advance i thought

1324
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:21,119
that made a lot of sense

1325
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:23,440
well it i mean i believe that

1326
00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:25,040
there it's possible that there could be

1327
00:50:32,870 --> 00:50:29,119
the equivalent of cavemen dolphins but

1328
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:35,589
focused predominantly on

1329
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:37,280
intelligence

1330
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:39,040
of the type that might

1331
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:41,040
explore the galaxy and i find it very

1332
00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:42,880
difficult to imagine

1333
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:43,920
um

1334
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:46,240
a intelligent species being able to

1335
00:50:49,589 --> 00:50:47,280
evolve

1336
00:50:52,150 --> 00:50:49,599
very far technologically without being

1337
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:52,160
able to form metal

1338
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:53,280
and

1339
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:55,040
you know you just can't have fires

1340
00:50:58,950 --> 00:50:57,440
underwater so you can't smell metal so

1341
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:58,960
that's the

1342
00:51:01,910 --> 00:51:00,480
uh

1343
00:51:04,470 --> 00:51:01,920
the the real

1344
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:04,480
turning point there it's the the

1345
00:51:09,750 --> 00:51:07,520
inability to have combustion

1346
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:09,760
right right so where would someone find

1347
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:11,200
your book

1348
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:12,559
uh amazon

1349
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:14,079
amazon.com

1350
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:16,480
and do you also have a website

1351
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:17,680
um i do

1352
00:51:21,910 --> 00:51:19,359
um i have a

1353
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:21,920
my website is more generic it's not just

1354
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:24,000
about this book it's about the many

1355
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:25,200
different types of scientific

1356
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:28,079
communication that i uh play with but

1357
00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:30,720
i'm on facebook and so facebook.com

1358
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:32,559
slash doctor

1359
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:36,480
or doctor period dawn period lincoln um

1360
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:39,520
and i chattered with people who

1361
00:51:43,349 --> 00:51:41,200
post there and

1362
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:43,359
it's a i hope it's a neat site i talk

1363
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:45,040
about all sorts of neat science that

1364
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:47,920
we're doing at our laboratory and uh

1365
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:49,760
anything neat that comes up about aliens

1366
00:51:52,950 --> 00:51:51,520
i'll post that there as well so thank

1367
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:52,960
you very much for joining us today it

1368
00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:54,720
was a real pleasure

1369
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:56,000
you're quite welcome

1370
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:57,440
i enjoyed it very much

1371
00:52:02,270 --> 00:51:59,200
thank you for listening to our show and

1372
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:02,280
please remember to check out our website

1373
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:04,559
podcastufo.com for the latest blogs and

1374
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:07,520
forums we'll be back next week thanks